Chapter 7

And so I started the “Josh Groban Uncensored Corner Pub”, and the reason I added the word “uncensored” in the title was because I was absolutely fed up with censorship--- and completely rude and hateful moderators, not only on Josh’s official boards, but on the other non-official Josh forums. I was determined to make my forum FAIR to all and uncensored. No deletions of posts, no squelching of ideas, no banning without good reason. Of course I did have rules, such as no extreme disrespect of Josh. (An attack on Josh or the support of attacks on Josh has always been grounds for banning.) But I wanted to allow everyone to speak freely, even if they disagreed with me or other members of the Pub.

Almost immediately I had visitors to the forum who were obviously ticked off that I had started the place, and I definitely sensed frustration in their posts. And some members were extremely hateful, posting scathing attacks on me. They appeared to be furious that I was the one in control now. After all, in the past, when I posted on a message board, there was always someone who had power over me—who could ban me or delete my posts or at least “turn me in” to someone who did have the power. Now it was ME who had the power, and nobody could “banish” me. Well, of course that is not exactly true. The forum was under the “Delphi Ruling Powers”, and if I violated the “Terms of Service” of Delphi I could be shut down. And apparently whoever is “watching” what I say and do immediately latched onto this angle and tried to “turn me in” to Delphi for any sort of violation they could think of. And their efforts were mildly successful in a few areas. One instance was the posting of a fan’s “address”, but all a poster stated was what large city this fan lived in, so, gee, that is not really revealing something of USE to anyone, is it? But the post was edited by Delphi. Another instance was a complaint about copying and pasting a post from another forum, and I easily dealt with that, too. (I just changed it to a link.) And another complaint was filed when I started a thread about my offer to send CD’s of “special Josh songs” to anyone who would like them. These were CD’s I made myself containing various recordings from the TV or radio or other sources. These were NOT straight copies of anything Warner Bros Records was SELLING. But some jerk out there who is intent upon lessening the joy of Josh Groban fans filed a complaint with Delphi. Then Delphi apparently misunderstood what I was doing and thought that I was making some sort of illegal copies of Josh’s CD’s currently available for sale and then offering them for free. So “Walt”, a person who worked for Delphi Forums, came into my forum and deleted the thread that I started about that---without warning, and that was the frustrating part. At least I was able to spread a little “Josh Joy” before the thread got deleted. I received many requests for the CD’s—some from people who simply read this forum and don’t post. And I got the most wonderful thank-you notes -- it is so true that the more you give, the more joy you receive in return. Many letters encouraged me to keep speaking out and keep being brave and to not give in to those who wanted to crush me and silence me.

Over time, it became obvious that someone (or several people) were “watching” the Pub and filing complaints with Delphi about anything and everything they could think of. And the maddening thing was that “Walt” didn’t bother to check out the validity of any complaints. He just came in and deleted without warning. I tried to email him and explain things to him and reason with him, but he was a complete arrogant unprofessional jerk. I eventually got fed up and told him to KISS MY ASS. I later found out that there was a high degree of dissatisfaction with the Delphi company and their moderators, and that was one reason that Beehive Forum software came into existence, which is the software I currently use for the Pub.

Anyway, that “CD incident” just reinforced my continuing “bewilderment” -- I have never been able to figure out WHY someone would be so intent upon objecting to things like that, because I cannot understand the benefit of the objections to anyone at all. For example, sending those CD’s to friends was not harming anyone, and in fact, it was spreading happiness. Here is a quote from an actual letter I received: “If it wasn’t for people like you, sharing those rare Josh songs, I would definitely have missed out of some incredible music.” And this: “Thank you so much for the CD’s and giving me the great pleasure of hearing new Josh songs. Because this is what it’s really all about, Josh’s beautiful beautiful voice.”

So for the life of me, I cannot understand this mentality some fans have of “turning other fans in”, when there is absolutely NO benefit to themselves, other fans, or JOSH for doing that. And in fact, I am guessing that is the ONE thing that bothers Josh the MOST about his message boards: fans attacking and turning in other fans…..especially since he even said at Tanglewood to “be nice to each other”. I am not saying that you cannot disagree with someone or dislike them for their views, but to go running off to some board moderator or a member of Josh’s team or his family and making complaints and demanding some fan’s banishment is a whole other matter. This behavior breeds distrust and fear, favoritism by people in charge, unfair application of rules, cliquish behaviors, and resentment and jealousy. Are these people who have run me and others from Josh’s boards now proud of the atmosphere they have created on Josh’s boards? Are they happy about what they have “accomplished”?? About the time I opened the Pub, things had gotten SO bad on Josh’s boards that a member felt compelled to post the following:

Think Before You Post
Dear Grobanites, Fans, Sisters, etc.

I have created this thread because we seem to have a problem on here, a very big problem and it just needs to be addressed. This is where you all put yourselves in the other persons shoes and really visualize how you would feel if you were them. I cannot believe we have people on here that literately gang up on one another and chase people out of here. Maybe because you disagree with them, or you don't personally like them, or maybe you are just simply unhappy with your life and you come in here and take it out on others, what ever the circumstances that may be in this world today. How could anybody say they are a friend of JOSH and his family when you come on here and are deliberately mean to others and chase them out Why would you do that? You have to honestly look at yourselves. Why would you do that to another person you barely even know, to make them feel unwanted, to make them feel like they don't belong in here. That to me goes against everything JOSH believes in, which is HUMAN KINDNESS. How can we call ourselves friends of Josh Groban when we spend hours on here throwing people out...making them feel sad and alone… depressed. This is supposed to be a happy place, even to newbies...they are getting disappointed. I am sure this is why JOSH got on us at Tanglewood about being nice to everyone on the boards. There’s a song that goes with this.."In the end Only kindness matters .I will get down on my knees and I will pray. You guys need to pray and stop being mean on here; its just not right for JOSH to see us doing stuff like that. What you think is funny and a joke others take seriously, so think before you post, please, and let’s keep this place a loving and kind place for EVERYONE TO COME. This isn't an exclusive click. If you want an exclusive click, its called create your own website and invite your click there. This is a loving place where you can meet a lot of interesting friends and enjoy the music of JOSH>>>and celebrate his success. Supporting him is the most important, definitely the most important, so lets stop the madness and do what is right ...LOVE ONE ANOTHER.

Sadly, some fans have never listened to what Josh said at Tanglewood. They are still going after other fans with vicious attacks. From the very beginning of the Josh Groban Uncensored Corner Pub, there were members signing up (anonymously) for the sole purpose of ranting about how horrible I was to speak up about Josh’s girlfriend or his record company or anything else that I had an opinion about. Some of these people were incredibly cruel with their posts, but I never deleted them. I was just happy that I could at least respond to their posts without getting deleted and banned! And YES, I got nasty at times myself. I will defend myself and speak out against people who hurt people I love. That’s me. So fighting and “negativity” have always been in the Pub to a certain degree. But most of the Pub members were (and still are) kind and reasonable and supportive. So overall, most of the time things were positive and fun, and supportive of Josh.

So….. everything was going along great until the “media incident” in December …

I was having such a blast with the forum that by the beginning of December 2005, I had decided to start a simple webpage dedicated to Josh to post some special files that were favorites of mine, that I knew his fans would enjoy. A few of these files were available at SuperNay’s media website, which is referenced heavily at Josh’s own official message boards. Some of the files I had received from friends or other websites, but it is important to note that none of the files I had available on my webpage were from media for sale by Josh’s record company or by any other company. One of the files I posted was one-third of ONE song from the special benefit performance of Chess. Keep in mind that entire songs from Chess were posted in YouTube at the time this incident began, and they are STILL there on YouTube. Just go to YouTube and do a search on “Josh Groban Chess” and you will see them there! So apparently neither Josh nor anyone else cares about a Chess clip being posted on the internet.

During the first week of December I received a “copyright infringement notice” email from my web hosting service and I was told to remove my files. They went on with a lot of legal BS and gave me an email address to use if I had questions for WB. I immediately emailed them to ask WHAT files I needed to remove, because I had NO idea. SuperNay had a couple of the same files on her site, and so I assumed it was not those, and I knew of no copyright on any of the other files. I had hoped that they would respond to me and tell me which files to remove, because I wanted to leave up any files I could. To my complete shock, they told me to remove ALL my files. The email was actually from a company called GrayZone, which has a website here: http://www.grayzone.com. I couldn’t understand their response and emailed them again, telling them there had to be a mistake, because Nay had her files posted for years and they were the same as mine. I was shocked at the response I got: they said they were turning the issue back to the WB lawyers, and then they went on and on about all this stuff that had NOTHING to do with me, such as telling me that there are people in Russia making a lot of money selling bootleg copies of CD’s on EBay. My response was…. HUH? I really don’t give a crap what some dang Russian crooks are doing. All I cared about was promoting and helping Josh and doing some nice things for his fans. I was not profiting in any way, nor hurting sales of Josh’s record company. If anything, I was HELPING Josh’s sales, by letting more people hear his beautiful voice. Also, to my horror, I soon found out that SuperNay had been notified to delete HER files on HER site! I was absolutely and totally upset at this turn of events, especially when people started accusing me of “turning Nay’s site in”! This was absolutely preposterous, because the only person who “turned someone in” was whoever turned ME AND MY SITE in to WB! And WHY the hell would they DO such a thing? WHO did they think they were HELPING by doing such a thing? I immediately started trying to find out what was going on, emailing everyone I could think of, usually not getting any response. I had an email exchange with Nay, offering my help, and she basically told me she didn’t want me to do anything. Her arrogance was infuriating. She basically treated me like dirt, implying that SHE was the only person good enough to have Josh media, and that the people at WB loved her and I was just a worthless piece of crap.

Well, her site was back up in about a week, so the “crisis” was over. I had removed those media files from my site, but still took a crushing beating in the Pub, especially from anonymous members. The whole incident was just SO unfair, and it was an obvious attempt by someone to hurt me and “get me” for something. Everyone can see now that it had nothing whatsoever to do with me posting one-third of a song from Chess. But at the time, everyone was screaming at me that I was an evil person because I posted a clip from Chess! Unbelievable! And I certainly was NOT trying to bring down Nay’s site. Anyone claiming otherwise is living in la-la land. In fact, I have always complimented Nay’s site. YES, it is a nice site. But now….as far as Nay, sorry, I have lost ALL respect for her, considering what she has done during the last two months. She is nothing but a vulgar, spiteful, arrogant, cruel bully, who will stop at nothing to get rid of people who stand up to her and who she views as getting in her way. And she participates in attacks on other fans, Joshua Bell, and Josh Groban. She supports degrading and defamatory photos of Josh and Joshua, and she even thinks she can speak for Josh. As a partial explanation of why I have come to view her this way, here are her actual words, posted a few days ago, on a vile website full of degrading images of Josh and Joshua:
"Louise, listen very closely.
Do you know why I keep saying Josh hates you?
BECAUSE JOSH. FUCKING. HATES. YOU.
Get over it. Face the truth. Tell anyone you want to come here, it'll just bring them here so we can tell them what an IMBALANCED, HARRASSING, DERANGED PIECE OF SHIT YOU ARE."

I really don’t mind people calling me imbalanced and deranged, or even a “piece of shit”, because if that is their opinion of me, they can state that if they wish. But I have never “harassed” anyone. Not here at this site, nor anywhere else. (Nor have I ever stalked, spammed, or libeled anyone. Reading Josh’s websites and commenting on things said there is NOT “stalking”—it is speaking out in a country that has free speech.)

And yes, Josh may hate me. I have no idea. If he does, then so be it, and I can hope that maybe someday he won’t hate me anymore. But even if he does hate me, I believe with all my heart that he would never want anyone to speak for him and tell the world on a public website that he hates anyone, especially one of his own fans. Because I believe in Josh and his kind heart. I know he is human and can’t love everyone, but I don’t think he would ever condone cruelty towards anyone. I have the greatest respect and admiration for both Josh and Joshua Bell, and it is absolutely horrifying to see their good names denigrated on vile public sites. They are magnificent young men and deserve our support and love.

Next chapter…. The year 2006: good things happen in Josh’s world, the Pub grows, more drama, and I escape from Walt and Delphi…

P.S. to Chapter 7:

I wanted to add this here, because it is extremely important. I didn't have time to go thru my files and find the actual email I sent to WB, so thankfully NAY posted it for me on Sue's page.

From: pillow_lady Dec-1 1:03 pm
To: ALL (3 of 95)

136.3 in reply to 136.2

OK, I just sent the following to that email address at WB:

I received the email below from Yahoo, and I will certainly comply with your request to remove the material that is copyrighted, but the email did not tell me which files were in question. Nay has several of the same files at her website www. thatjoshgrobanguy. com, so I am assuming those are fine, but I don't know about the others.

Thank you for posting that Nay, because it PROVES what I said in Chapter 7 was TRUE. Every word of it. It proves that I had NO intent whatsoever to harm you or bring down your site. Note my exact words to WB: I am assuming those are fine.

So thanks again Nay for PROVING MY POINT.

ALSO, here is part of an email I sent to Nay on Dec 4, 2005:

"Maybe we can work together to solve this problem, huh? And also, duplication of effort is not a good thing, so please let me know how we can handle this...i.e....what I can do. The files on my site were NOT intended to duplicate your site, only enhance what Josh's fans would see...

Has WB contacted you other than telling you to take your media down? Can you tell me what is going on?

Thanks,

Louise

And here is the beginning of Nay's response to me that same day:

Louise,

Thank you for the email. I do not believe that you realized what would happen when you gave Grayzone the link to my site, or that it was done maliciously. It has caused a huge problem now, though, that is more complicated than I think you even realize.

I have had several conversations with various people, and am making some headway in getting the media returned on my site.

THOSE are Nay's WORDS which prove that even SHE didn't think I was doing anything maliciously.... I would never do anything to hurt Josh or his fans!