Chapter 8
Before I continue on with this story, I want to show everyone part of an interesting email from Cheekymonkie to me that I saved:
Saturday, January 28, 2006 5:40 AM
In the past, there were a few people that were ASKED to help keep the boards pg rated at the request of lindy groban, to point out raunchy topics, etc to the moderators, so she would feel comfortable with the young fans using both boards freely. When we were 'branded' with the BP moniker, we took it in stride but believe me, no mod ever acted on anything at a fans request including us, in fact they often did nothing.
There you have it folks…..from Cheekymonkie’s own mouth….
So on with my story….
Chapter seven took us through December, 2005 and the “media incident”. I had started my new forum just a couple of months before that, and troublemakers continued to visit my forum into the year 2006. Apparently it wasn’t good enough that I had been run off of Josh’s boards, the “Louise haters” were determined to cause trouble for me and try to get my private forum shut down. (And if you’ve been following the Pub this year you know they are still stalking me and bullying me.) My forum was open to anyone to join, and I was determined NOT to censor my board and delete posts. I even had a folder in the Pub dedicated to censorship on Josh’s message boards, where people could express their outrage at topics or posts deleted there, which was always without warning and with no explanation.
Of course, the focus in the Pub was always on the good things about Josh and his music, and from the start I tried to make my forum something people would enjoy coming to…. I started contests and special features such as quotes and other music topics. My membership kept growing as well as the number of guests visiting.
But I did continue my outspoken ways about the operation of Josh’s fan club, his record company, and anything else I thought was important to discuss. Topics that were deleted immediately on Josh’s boards were allowed to be discussed in the Pub, such as the payola scandals at WMG in November 2005 and at Clear Channel in April 2006. Discussions (and of course arguments) continued about Josh’s fans, his message boards, his girlfriend, and even his charity. (And my temper flared a LOT—I admit it!) Of course, this didn’t please the board police types, who came into the Pub every chance they got to blast me and other Pub members. Notable names were Rubberbaby66, BadMoonRise, Demon666, and “Richard Simmons”. These people were constantly trying to report everything and anything they could find for “Terms of Service” violations. One of the most upsetting deletions to happen was my thread where I was posting my OWN story of what happened to me since becoming a Josh fan. Yes, that’s right, THIS story was deleted by Walt of Delphi Forums several times, because someone filed complaints. Thankfully I had saved it on my computer, so I was able to restore it each time. Many times complaints were filed for “copying posts from other message boards”, and at one point Walt even GAGGED me so that I couldn’t even post in my OWN forum.
I went thru my files with saved threads (yes I save everything—I’m a complete pack rat, even when it comes to computer files) and I found some interesting posts that I thought I would include in this chapter. I especially like this first one from Gin:
From GinGinSan on Apr-4 2006, 9:50 am:
Okay folks - in case you're wondering what happened to Louise's whole story, the Delphi people deleted it because Spyder, a/k/a Nancy went searching very carefully through this entire site and found something to complain about - alleging that Louise included private emails in her introduction - remember everyone - those were the big ugly nasty emails sent between Dan and Lynne and Nancy and Louise and a WBR staffer where Lynne accused Louise of being obscene and demanding that she be banned and Nancy a/k/a Spyder who had denied ever turning anyone in was proven to be a fat stinking liar? Everybody with me now? In case you aren't we're talking about a series of emails which were freely and voluntarily sent to Louise as part of their response to her. Well, yesterday Nancy complained to Walt at Delphi that private emails had been posted and guess what - Walt from Delphi deleted Louise's whole story. BRILLIANT MOVE WALT!
Hey Walt, in case you're reading this -- THERE ARE LAWS THAT DEAL WITH THE PROCESS TO GO ABOUT EDITING SOMEONE'S MESSAGE BOARD. DELPHI IS NOT ABOVE THE LAW WALT, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ACCEPT MONEY FROM A SUBSCRIBER AND THEY PAY YOU TO HOST THE FORUM.
Statement of opinion to follow: People who intentionally and unlawfully edit other people's posts are MORONS.
STATEMENT OF COPYRIGHT: This is for you Walt: The undersigned, GinGin-San expressly reserves any and all copyright of the foregoing posting. This post may not be used, copied or reprinted, whether electronically or in any other medium, without the author GinGin-San's express permission. c. 2006
From: pillow_lady
Thanks Gin!And the reason I haven't posted here since 3:30 YESTERDAY is that DELPHI GAGGED ME until just now!!!I will NOT be renewing my services with Delphi, and I WILL be moving this forum to another hosting service as soon as possible. I will NOT PAY someone to INSULT me and arbitrarily come in this forum and delete threads with NO WARNING.
I feel the year 2006 was a great one for Josh. One of the frequent topics of discussion in the beginning of that year was his girlfriend January Jones. I had the opinion that Josh was quite unhappy early that year, but people kept telling me I was crazy for thinking such things. The last formal public appearance that they made together was at the Academy Awards in March and the fans were still going on about what a beautiful couple they were--- everyone thought they were about to walk down the aisle and have five babies. There was a photo that appeared in a magazine showing a rare “candid” moment of them together, shopping on Rodeo Drive. And again everyone exclaimed how happy and “in love” they were. Well, turns out that they were just about splitsville around that time—that photo was taken around March, and someone later told me they broke up in April. The big news didn’t hit the press until June, when Josh showed up at the Hyde with Amanda Avila and a friend, and told a guy there that he and January were not together anymore. No, I didn’t have a party in the Pub, nor did I make a big deal about it, but it is interesting to note that right after the breakup news, some anonymous person on the IMDB board ripped into me with a furious attack, almost as if they were blaming ME for the breakup. Oh gee, right, Josh read that I didn’t like her and therefore he decided to break up with her. What a ridiculous thought. Anyway, I did wish January well on my board, and vowed never to talk about her again unless someone asked me a specific question about her. And I have kept my promise about that. Yes, I admit I have made a few snarky comments here and there over the past couple of years, but overall I have dropped the subject. Of course, in this story I wanted to bring her up for completeness. And one important thing I wanted to say is that from the beginning of the summer of 2006, Josh’s fans almost immediately noticed a startling transformation in Josh. His bright smile was back, and later we learned that he dove into the making of his next studio album with tremendous passion and hard work. The result, in November 2006, was his stunning album “AWAKE”.
Next, here is an interesting exchange in the Pub in May, 2006. The important thing to note here is that “Scooby” is actually Lynne Malone, a member of Josh’s management team. Nobody knew who Scooby was at the time of this exchange—except ME. The discussion was about my harsh treatment (bannings from everything) and the reason for it:
From: Scooby (cyrse) May-13 9:35 am To: pillow_lady
I did hear things at the shows. Let's just say that the decision to ban any fan comes only from the top and that a certain person's antics has prompted a security issue for a certain family and their extended circle. actually, it's not such a hush hush secret at the shows, it's a popular subject with the grobies that chit chat with warner and tour personel. i was fascinated with what i heard and that brought me to your site.
From: pillow_lady May-13 6:45 pm To: Scooby (cyrse)
What security issue????Can you explain what you mean????
From: Scooby (cyrse) May-13 7:07 pm To: pillow_lady
I don't want to put you down but I've seen so much of your rantings and surely you should be able to step outside yourself and ponder what the people that you're targeting must be thinking? Personal safety plays into the picture. That's the gist of what I've heard. But, it could be complete hogwash from overzealous grobiefanantics. Sorry, I'm reluctant to say these things as it may not be true from their end.
From: GinGinSan May-13 9:10 pm To: Scooby (cyrse)
Oh, Yeah - personal security is so important that the folks around Josh don't have the brains to tell him to hire a decent lawyer to set up a blind trust for him to purchase his real estate, so instead any wacko with an internet connection can find the kid's address in about 2 seconds flat. Ya know Scooby, not trying to put you down and sorry for the run on sentences here, but I've heard security raised in the past and it just makes me laugh. I would expect that Josh's management team would at least have the brains amoung one of them to hire a semi intelligent security person at a minimum to make sure you don't do something so foolish as to end up with your home address blasted on an internet site. Not so, and that is such a shame. I don't think California requires a lawyer for real estate closings and the poor kid probably relied on the realtor to do the deal - gheesh. So all the concern about security issues at concerts is swell but what's more likely to happen - you get ravaged by a fan at a concert with 10,000 people around or you meet some whack job as you're getting out of your car in the private garage of your condo - go figure. I'd be more afraid getting out of my car but hey - what do I know. curiously,Gin
From: NYConnie May-13 10:05 pm
To: GinGinSan >>> you get ravaged by a fan at a concert with 10,000 people around...yeah - at least after a show there would be a crapload of other fans to pounce on the attacker....let's just hope this NEVER happens....
From: pillow_lady May-14 12:40 am
To: GinGinSan
Gin, that is EXACTLY what I was thinking!!It boggles my mind that they don't seem to be bothered by Josh's address being on the internet and people hunting down his house, but if a fan speaks up about something they don't like about Josh's girlfriend, or his charity---then they are BANNED from his message boards!! INCREDIBLE!!And how is posting on a message board a "security threat" to Josh?? That they need to take action about???That is the part I don't get.....or am I totally missing something here???????????????
From: Bumbershoot May-14 9:31 am
To: pillow_lady
Yes Louise you ARE missing something. It's called a double standard and I wish you wouldn't be so "hands off" about this forum cuz we got the jg.com board police here to turn this place into Josh Stepford Groban Forum. You are not allowed to say anything about January because you're not kissing Josh's ass. Or wait. Maybe your not kissing Josh's managers ass or the ass of those self righteous self appointed women who've NO LIFE and NOTHING better to do than patrol some young singers forum looking for the first person who will speak the truth and burst this fantasy of their virginal sweetheart.THEY can act like bitches who haven't taken their meds for a week but don't you dare say anything about THEM.
From: anutcase2 May-14 11:15 am
To: Scooby (cyrse)
But, it could be complete hogwash from overzealous grobiefanantics. Sorry, I'm reluctant to say these things as it may not be true from their end.
Nah, gee, do ya think? Overzealous grobiefanatics? REALLY??? Are there such things? *YES! THIS IS SARCASM!* Seems to me his personnel and his family should be more concerned about the people who show up everywhere Josh is and must put their faces in front of the Grobans and Josh's Team at every single opportunity they get, and actually think they are real "friends" of Josh Groban. *shudder* Those are the people who are scary and delusional. Those who make their whole lives about Josh Groban and their lives and plans revolve around Josh Groban and his tour, now that is scary. A little too invasive if you ask me. It is beyond me why they don't worry more about that and that they are actually receptive of it. Blows my mind that they don't see through a few of the fans who have managed to worm their way in. I'll never understand it and have given up trying.
From: Scooby (cyrse) May-14 12:08 pm
To: GinGinSan
I think you missed the point. The point was that if she thinks all of her antics went unnoticed by the very people that she targets, they noticed. To the point of pondering security when it came to that topic. If you have an issue with how they buy real estate, take it up with them.
From: Scooby (cyrse) May-14 12:12 pm
To: anutcase2
Yes, that's right. Those are the people that I heard it from so take it with a grain of salt. I shouldn't repeat what I heard.
From: pillow_lady May-14 12:21 pm
To: Scooby (cyrse)
Sorry, I am VERY confused. WHO is this "she" you are referring to?And what "antics"??
From: GinGinSan May-15 7:49 am To: Scooby (cyrse)
No Scooby, I didn't miss the point but you seem to miss mine - it's like worrying about a single tree when the whole forest is on fire. Some people are vocal and opinionated and post those opinions online- that does not make them dangerous. Some people try to get into places they do not belong, and slip past security - that in my humble opinion, does make them a potential threat and that is dangerous. As between a fan who tatooed a likeness of Josh on her arm and one who set up a web site where she is free to say what she wants, I fall back on the old adage that actions speak louder than words and I would be watchful of the fan who has made a permanent impression of Josh on her body. "If you have an issue with how they buy real estate, take it up with them."What are you suggesting - that I send Josh or his management a letter? I don't have an issue with it as you suggest - I have an opinion about it which I doubt anyone on his team would be interested in hearing. Perhaps you know otherwise, I certainly don't.Gin
From: pillow_lady May-18 12:13 am
To: Scooby (cyrse)
I am going back and catching up with answering posts here that I quickly read and didn't have time to fully respond to....
You said:"I did hear things at the shows. Let's just say that the decision to ban any fan comes only from the top and that a certain person's antics has prompted a security issue for a certain family and their extended circle. actually, it's not such a hush hush secret at the shows, it's a popular subject with the grobies that chit chat with warner and tour personel. i was fascinated with what i heard and that brought me to your site."
Ok, if I understand what you are saying, you came to this site because you heard some people talking about ME at some concerts. And certain Grobanites talking about ME with Warner employees and Josh's tour personnel is a popular thing to do. How lovely. In other words, certain Grobanites love to tell Warner Brothers employees how horrible I am--apparently telling them I am SO horrible that they need to worry about security "issues" where I am concerned. And I am assuming you are talking about me because you mention banning (which I have been), and then you say that what you heard brought you to MY site.You know, this is REALLY disturbing, because I am about as much a danger to Josh or his family or JJ or any "extended circle" as a fly on the wall. To think that someone has so much hate towards me that they intentionally spread lies about me to Warner employees and tour people, well, that is just incomprehensible to me.....
Anyway..to the point of this post. You say you were fascinated with what you heard, and I assume you came to this site to see if what you heard was TRUE (I hope.) I really hope that you have had the time to read my posts here and perhaps read my story. And so I want to ask you: now that you have read here and perhaps understand what I believe, do YOU think I am some "security threat" or some wacko they need to get rid of?? Were the things you heard at the concerts verified by what you read here? And finally, after visiting here, do you have a more positive view of me, or a more negative view of me than before?Please be honest--I can take it and will NOT get angry at you for saying what you really think!And by the way...I am NOT "targeting" anyone at ALL. All I have done is state my views (rather strongly I admit) out of genuine CONCERN FOR JOSH and his happiness and well-being. I just feel that certain people around him do NOT have HIS best interest at heart.......If you would rather email your answers to me rather than post them here, feel free! My email address is: lam.inc@verizon.net
Here is how I knew the identity of “Scooby”:
One of the features of Delphi is that you can "report a post" that you don't like just by pressing a button in the post. "Cyrse used this "report feature" in March of 2006. "Cyrse" apparently was under the impression that when you pressed that "report" button, your complaint went directly to the mods at Delphi...somebody like a-hole Walt. But in reality, the complaint that the person typed in went directly to the FORUM HOST, which was ME. So I actually got the message "Cyrse" typed in via my email, and here it is:
FROM: mailer@mailer.prospero.com
DATE: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 3:18 PM
To: lam.inc@verizon.net
Subject: Possible TOS Violation by pillow_lady for Invasion of Privacy in '#messagesubject#
TOS Violation Report:
Reporter: cyrse
Type of Violation: Invasion of Privacy
Message URL: http://forums.delphiforums.com/JGUncensored/messages?msg=318.15
Additional Comments:
We are Josh Groban's managers and DO NOT want our email addresses publicly listed on this site. We did not give basic7 permission for this. Please have this post removed.
Lynne Malone & Brian Avnet of Avnet Management
Also, within a few hours of getting this email, I also got an email directly from Lynne about removing those email addresses. So I then knew who Scooby was, and I kept that to myself. I saw Scooby login quite a lot at the Pub, but she rarely posted. But gee, that’s nice that she liked the Pub…. Har har har….
Anyway, I continued to get more and more pissed off at a-hole Walt of Delphi, who was one of the most unprofessional people I’ve ever dealt with… he sorta reminded me of the people running Josh’s boards. It’s like being a forum moderator develops in people some freakish I’m-better-than-everyone-else attitude and turns them into rude, uncaring jerks who delight in having the power to press the delete button and silence those they don’t like. God help me if I ever develop that attitude running the Pub…..
Next chapter: I escape from Delphi and the NEW Josh Groban Corner Pub is born!
PS to Chapter 8.......
I wanted to respond to something related to the beginning of this story....
At other places recently, there has been talk of what started this "fan war" years ago... even though I would NOT characterize it as JUST a "fan war" at ALL. Nevertheless, the origins of "the war" can be clearly seen in the beginning chapters of my story posted in this thread. I know it is long, but if anyone is really interested in the TRUTH of how everything played out in the beginning, please take the time to read this thread.
People have been claiming that I started the "bullying" years ago. Sorry but that is a complete distortion of the TRUTH. YES, I guess you could say I "started" things years ago, but to characterize it as "bullying" is preposterous. And to further imply that I started attacking other fans, so they "had" to fight back is a complete LIE. The TRUTH is that I started speaking out about people around Josh who I thought were hurting him and disrespecting him. I didn't like his girlfriend January Jones, because of the disrespect she showed in many ways: of JOSH primarily. I thought she was using him and I still think that to this day. I also was very outspoken about Josh's record company and at times, his management. I have since learned that January Jones was(is) friends with many people at WMG and in Josh's management-- and even in his family. And so anyone with a brain in their head can understand that I was "marked" as an "enemy" and "troublemaker" among people around Josh in a business sense-- and with those people in control of his message boards, his fan club and even his charity. THAT is why I was banned. I spoke up when others didn't. NONE of that has anything whatsoever to so with "bullying other fans". What happened is that "other fans" took the side of January Jones, WB, and Josh's management, and before I was banned, they attacked me for my positions and for speaking out against the people they were trying to suck up to and gain favor with. And then getting rid of me from Josh's message board and fan club was never enough for them... they continued to hunt me down on the internet to initimidate me and shut me up. And apparently, it's become an obsession with them.
I hope this post clarifies a few things for people reading here who are newcomers to all this "drama"..... (nod)